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Survivor Room / Re: Diagnosis
« Last post by Lorien on June 14, 2019, 12:46:58 AM »
I would think that the number of people who are being treated for EUPD, when they are actually Autistic is very high. There has been some research on the fact that some areas overlap but that focused on the idea that lots of people have both.

Its now common practice where I live to screen for ASD if someone has an ADHD dx because they are very frequently co-morbid. But that is CAMHS. I don't know why the same is not done for PD...especially when they aren't sure... Particularly because CAMHS isn't actually supposed to diagnose PD. Occasionally I do want to be able to go back in time and give the CAMHS Psychiatrist all the info I have now. Not just for my benefit either. There was an inquest here a few years ago when someone from the same school was seen by the same Psychiatrist and died, she commented that he may well be autistic but, high functioning - like that makes it irrelevant.

I do think that Bipolar fits better and unlike ASD it has been discussed before. I just feel a bit like every time I build up a good and useful understanding of myself, something comes and kicks it down. It makes it difficult to want to start again with that.

I know that there is a huge range in the ways any condition affects an individual. It was just a bit scary. Life is pretty much on track these days. The idea that I may blow it to bits in future is terrifying. But with some time to reflect a bit, I know I'm not different and I guess forewarned is forearmed. So I can at least work out how to reduce the likely hood of messing it all up.
Survivor Room / Re: Is it depression or laziness?
« Last post by Vermilion on June 13, 2019, 01:38:26 PM »
Yeah, depression does has it's physical side, I've sometimes described it as like living with a permanent flu with the aching and tiredness. I think for me anxiety exacerbates it because I get frustrated with myself, then I get depressed because I can't do things, then I get anxious because I can't do things, it's hard to get out of that.
Emotions are exhausting, even 'normal' people feel tired after an emotional event but we feel these intense emotions constantly so it's no wonder we struggle with everyday life.
I'm starting to understand a little more now.
Survivor Room / Re: Self harm and you - your stories. Part 2 *posts may trigger*
« Last post by J82T on June 12, 2019, 11:19:10 PM »

I started to SH using 'tools' somewhere around age 17 or 18 I think, although I can remember using fingernails as young as maybe 9 or 10.  In any case, it was always done in total secret.

By my early twenties I was hurting myself regularly in places where the cuts could be easily hidden.  I've never been diagnosed with anything like depression or anxiety but whenever I did feel down, SH took the edge off those feelings.  Having a secret also appealed to me, as though knowing something that no one else knew made me somehow less inadequate than I already felt.

I stopped SH altogether when I met my wife-to-be.  I wanted to be able to tell her that it was an old habit, not a current one so I made myself stop and never hurt myself again while we were together.  The day she left after over ten years of marriage, I started again almost immediately.

I wanted to hurt myself so many times and didn't, because I'd promised her that I wouldn't.  I was proud that I'd stopped, and I'm ashamed to have gone back to it after so long but I've lost my reason not to.  In an attempt to get the habit under control I've started counselling this week and have also seen my GP.  I really want to beat this habit again.
Survivor Room / Re: Is it depression or laziness?
« Last post by Terri on June 12, 2019, 05:45:11 PM »
For me, depression is physical as well as mental. It's heavy weight on my body as well as crushing nothingness, not even sadness. It's different for different people, I think.

I hear you about the idleness thing. I don't know. I try hard not to be, but today I am in clothes that I've worn for the past three days, I haven't showered and I've sent most of the day under a duvet on the sofa. My Mum had to drive me to McDonalds to get a wrap or I wouldn't have eaten anything. I don't even feel demotivated. I feel paralysed. Is that a thing? I'm not depressed at the moment, but I am incredibly anious. I find the aniety more debiliatating than the depression. I get 'stuck.' You know?

Daily Fail. Ugh.
Survivor Room / Re: Is it depression or laziness?
« Last post by Vermilion on June 12, 2019, 05:36:33 PM »
That's certainly a new way to look at it, the part about the mood scales makes a lot of sense. The conclusion seems to be that 'laziness' is relative and perhaps considering the extra effort it can take to organise thoughts and also dealing with the physical fatigue while having extra daily struggles means that I'm not necessarily 'lazy' .
Perhaps the term 'lazy' is just society's way of passing judgement on others; I'd say that everyone finds life difficult and perhaps people get frustrated at others who aren't capable of doing as much. We've all read the tirade against 'lazy shirkers' on benefits' in The Daily Fail and the like, they don't know that for us it's not leisure time but merely trying to get though the day without hurting ourselves.
I think that I really need to talk this through with psych, if I can stop beating my self up (literally and figuratively) that would be a step in the right direction.
Another problem is trying to distinguish between intense sadness which everyone has sometimes and a more debilitating depression. Many people conflate the two I think. I'm going to hurt my psych's brain with stuff  but I really need to understand these things.

Thanks both. :)
Survivor Room / Re: Is it depression or laziness?
« Last post by Lorien on June 11, 2019, 08:23:59 PM »
I think executive dysfunction has a role in the difference too. Sometime people want to be able to do something but cant organise their thoughts or motivation enough to do that, whether they are depressed or not.

I guess lazy has a range of connotations. Some people might think it is lazy to leave a plate on the lounge floor after eating. But in our house that is usually - it took so long to motivate yourself to eat what was on the plate, you now have nothing left to put it away. I think if I'm honest, most people have a reason for their "laziness" but it is often used as a descriptor of behaviour other people don't understand. I've been looking at mood scales a lot recently so sorry if this doesn't make a great deal of sense. If your mood is usually between 6 and 4 then the amount of effort it takes to do things is not usually demanding. You might not feel like a spring clean on a 4 day, but most things aren't so much effort. So it is difficult to understand why someone who has moods higher or lower on that scale might not be able to do the things you see as normal. If it takes all the effort you have to do 3 small task, your house and hygiene are not going to be squeaky clean. Similarly if you can only focus on one project remembering to eat is a bonus. It isn't lazy to not put the plate away...that detracts from the "ever so important project" you're working on.

It might be a bit off the point, but I don't know if there is really such thing as lazy. It is an evaluation of someone else's priorities and actions. I'm not sure we ever have a full enough picture of the thought process to evaluate something fairly.
Survivor Room / Re: Is it depression or laziness?
« Last post by Rob on June 11, 2019, 05:20:27 PM »
I can see how you're thinking. Not realising goals might be depressing, but I think that's more of a sadness than a debilitating depression. Laziness is just deliberately avoiding jobs/chores. You have motivation, ie you want things, but depression masks motivation to act.

Survivor Room / Re: Diagnosis
« Last post by Vermilion on June 11, 2019, 04:10:37 PM »
It was often assumed that I had EUPD purely because I'm female and self harm and also have 'emotional instability' which applies to most psychiatric disorders. I was never diagnosed but I felt like it was the whole 'well, we have to write something' kind of crap. I was diagnosed with ASD last year and after a lot of my own research (because professionals didn't seem to have a clue) I feel that the diagnosis does indeed fit. I was also seen as being 'difficult' or 'not engaging' due to a lack of eye contact/inability to attend groups etc but I've found that a diagnosis of ASD has meant that professionals have to be more accepting of these things. I think that it's perfectly okay to have a say in your diagnosis and to go with the label that you feel best fits you. That's what I've done. Of course I don't mean self diagnosing but discussing them with professionals to reach the correct diagnosis is perfectly reasonable. It can be very difficult though because many disorders overlap with symptoms.
Regarding the bipolar dx, do you feel it actually fits your symptoms? Also bare in mind that there are different types of bipolar and not all of them are severe and some sufferers have one major episode in their entire lives.
It does make me wonder how many people have an EUPD dx and are actually autistic. I think that professionals are too quick to slap a label on girls as having EUPD because it's a vague label with many symptoms that can be ticked off easily in many people and then 'it's just part of her personality which can't be treated' which is appalling because EUPD is a very real disorder with very real struggles.
Survivor Room / Re: Is it depression or laziness?
« Last post by Vermilion on June 11, 2019, 03:45:40 PM »
Isn't laziness a lack of self motivation though? And a lack of self motivation would lead to depression in the sense that there'll be things you haven't achieved/regrets and the like.
 In life it's necessary to push yourself but I can't figure out if it's just laziness or depression in my case.
Maybe I'm overthinking again :/.
Survivor Room / Re: Diagnosis
« Last post by Lorien on June 11, 2019, 03:13:43 PM »
I think its more than validation. The discussion around Autism completely changed my perspective on pretty much everything I do. In doing that, from the first discussion I've not s/hed at all in 3 years. That was after it being a pretty continuous part of my life for 15 years and escalating over that time to a point where things were pretty scary. It seems a lot like the ASD diagnosis now means that they have something appropriate to write, so the "i have to write something" element of the EUPD diagnosis goes and it feels like they pretty much hung that all on the fact that I do s/h. I have never met enough of the criteria anyway and it has never felt like something that has made sense. I think that people here are pretty aware of how sh*tty some professionals can be around PD. But it feels a bit like the ones that weren't were a bit naive to think other people wouldn't be.

I spent a lot of time working out what things worked for me and rewriting everything in my head because what i had been told was wrong. Now it feels like i have to start all over again. The difference this time is that I don't have the information I would need to do that. I knew a lot about ASD previously and I just had to try to work out how to apply that to myself. I don't know a lot about Bipolar disorder and what I do know scares me. My Ex had a Manic Episode with Psychosis a few years ago and the fall out from the things he was doing then essentially trashed his career. I've been working my ass off trying to manage work and Uni together, but it feels a lot like I can get to wherever I want, having worked as hard or not as I feel like, but there will always be the prospect of an episode of depression or mania on the horizon that has the potential to sweep it all away. It is also hard to trust pros. I pretty consistently told them that they were wrong for 10 years and they take the rejection of anything that wont work as "being difficult".

One Psychiatrist recommended I spend 5 days a week for 2 yrs in a Theraputic community...while also saying that I don't fit easily into any of their diagnostic criteria. So in essence, I was being difficult because I refused to spend 2 years of my life being treated that intensively for a condition I don't have. Advice based on assumptions about what I probably would do from people that don't know me, based on that single line explanation also includes: not meeting someone from here again after they were the only person I could contact when I had seriously hurt myself and couldn't make myself call an ambulance. They appeared from the depths of the internet so that I didn't have to have general anaesthetic on my own. But because of the assumption that I would have turbulent relationship with them. I was "ignoring advice" when I met them again...we've been together 5 years and are engaged.     

I think the panic attack started at that point because i was helping someone shower and the room was hot and full of steam, so I had a reason to find it more difficult to breathe. Then I spiralled into complete panic. I think I was ignoring things and then I couldn't ignore them anymore. It was exactly a week after the change in diagnosis. Mostly I think it was a combination of not knowing how to handle the change on top of a very hectic work/uni life.

If a diagnosis was just a word, I'd agree it probably doesn't matter especially because I've not changed. But it isn't just a word, it is a way of describing and entire person, in as few words as possible. I guess I kind of see their "I don't like labels" in the same way as I see it when people claim that they "don't see race". It is a step away from direct prejudice and well meant, but fails to recognise that it exists. That the historical presence of that prejudice informs the opinions people have without them being consciously aware of it and enables the continued poor treatment of people under that banner. It is pretty amazing the extent that people's attitudes change based on a diagnosis. Before when I didn't make eye contact with a professional that I didn't know, they would be annoyed by it and at the very least chase it. People took it personally and made it an issue. Now, I still don't look at people, but no one minds, because that is expected in ASD and they know its not personal.
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